14 episodes
Rock That Doesn't Roll: The Story of Christian Music Andrew Gill and Leah Payne
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4.8 • 106 Ratings
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Rock That Doesn’t Roll looks at how Christian music shaped the world we're living in now by telling individual stories from the peak era of the contemporary Christian music industry. In the 80s, 90s and early 2000s CCM grew into a billion dollar business that affected millions of evangelical young people. Through interviews with artists, industry players and average fans we trace the long-lasting personal, cultural and political impact of sometimes cringe-worthy music. Expect hilarious moments and heartfelt yearning, purity culture and conservative politics- all in equal measure. Whether you’ve deconstructed, come out or renegotiated your faith, we hope you feel seen. If you’ve never given Christian music any thought beyond a punchline, we hope you’ll gain a deeper understanding of a subculture that’s shaping the world around us now.
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Holy Hip Hop (ft. Soup The Chemist)
In the 1990s, music critics argue that hip hop was in its golden age. Mainstream Top 40 charts were filled with hits from The Notorious B.I.G, Tupac Shakur, and Dr. Dre. But the Contemporary Christian charts lagged far, far behind. What took so long for holy hip hop to take off? With insight from Dr. Jonathan Calvillo (author of In the Time of Sky-Rhyming: How Hip Hop Resonated in Brown Los Angeles), journalist and producer Andrew Gill (Sound Opinions), and historian Leah Payne (God Gave Rock and Roll to You: a History of Contemporary Christian Music) follow the story of Christopher J. Cooper, aka Soup the Chemist, aka Super C, a groundbreaking figure in the Christian hip hop movement. It wasn’t easy, but as Soup the Chemist worked to carve out a place for Christian hip hop to thrive, he laid the foundation for future Christian hip hop artists like Propaganda and Lecrae.
Do you have a Christian music story to tell? Leave us a message at (629) 777-6336.
If you want more seasons of Rock That Doesn’t Roll, you can support us on Patreon. https://www.patreon.com/rtdr
You can connect with us on Instagram or by emailing RTDRpod@gmail.com
Sign up for our Substack to keep up with show developments.
Buy RTDR merch here. -
Undo Me (ft. Jennifer Knapp)
In 1999, singer-songwriter Jennifer Knapp was at the top of the Christian music world. Her debut album Kansas was gold-certified, she'd won four Gospel Music Association Dove Awards, and she was on tour with some of the top bands in the business. It seemed like Knapp was destined to be the ultimate rockstar poster child for evangelical teens - especially young women. But that frame was an uncomfortable fit for Knapp. She was an adult convert, and the evangelical norms that young women learned from the world of CCM were new to her. Eventually, at the height of her fame, Jennifer moved across the globe, and disappeared from the world of CCM. Yet even when she thought her stint in Christian music was over, Jennifer's fans had other ideas. In this episode, journalist and producer Andrew Gill (Sound Opinions), and historian Leah Payne (God Gave Rock and Roll to You: a History of Contemporary Christian Music) follow Knapp’s story, and explore how, together with her fans, she’s making new meaning out of the Christian music of her past.
Do you have a Christian rock story to tell? Leave us a message at (629) 777-6336.
If you want more seasons of Rock That Doesn’t Roll, you can support us on Patreon. https://www.patreon.com/rtdr
You can connect with us on Instagram or by emailing RTDRpod@gmail.com
Sign up for our Substack to keep up with show developments.
Buy RTDR merch here. -
Season Two Trailer
In the second season of Rock That Doesn't Roll, hosts Dr. Leah Payne and Andrew Gill look at how Christian music shaped the world we're living in now. Topics covered in season two include hip hop, feminism, purity culture, hair metal and more. Episodes publish every other week starting on April 24.
Do you have a Christian rock story to tell? Leave us a message at (629) 777-6336.
If you want more seasons of Rock That Doesn’t Roll, you can support us on Patreon. https://www.patreon.com/rtdr
You can connect with us on Instagram or by emailing RTDRpod@gmail.com
Sign up for our Substack to keep up with show developments. -
How Amy Grant Got To The Tiny Desk (ft. Lars Gotrich)
In this bonus episode, Andrew and Leah talk with Lars Gotrich of NPR Music, the producer who brought Amy Grant to play a Tiny Desk Concert. Lars shares how he went from "judgy Christian punk rocker" to someone good at existing in two worlds at once.
To hear the full interview, join our Patreon at https://www.patreon.com/rtdr
Find Lars’ playlists and tea newsletter at vikingschoice.org -
Introducing: Kristin Du Mez and David French on No Small Endeavor with Lee C. Camp
What happens when one of the country’s most outspoken critics of white male Christian political conservatism sits down with a well-known white male conservative Christian political pundit? Find out, as Kristin Du Mez and David French discuss politics, culture, and the desperate need for hospitality in the digital age on No Small Endeavor with Lee C. Camp.
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Fugazi to Frodus to Rock That Doesn't Roll: Composer Jim Cooper
In this bonus episode Leah and Andrew interview Jim Cooper, the composer who wrote and recorded the original score for Rock That Doesn't Roll. He talks about growing up in the DC area, getting obsessed with Fugazi and Dischord Records, then throwing away all his secular music. The full hour-long interview is at our Patreon. The conversation goes on to talk about abandoning a theology major at Wheaton College for music, getting support from John J Thompson and True Tunes, performing at Cornerstone and eating humble pie after opening for Wilco. Join our Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/RTDR Some of Jim's music: https://infomercialusa.bandcamp.com/ https://detholz.bandcamp.com/ https://tyme.bandcamp.com/album/someday-in-the-ancient-future Andrew references Ian MacKaye's Episcopalian upbringing in the discussion. Read more about that here: https://wamu.org/story/14/10/17/the_unlikely_bond_between_a_dc_church_and_the_punk_music_scene/
Customer Reviews
Jennifer Knapp ⭐️⭐️⭐️
Thanks so much for interviewing Jennifer Knapp! A an ex youth group kid who’s now a queer adult, I loved hearing more of her story.
Memory lane
This is so great and funny and interesting! Brought me back to my high school youth group and the music I so desperately loved and wanted everyone else to love too. Once in a while I will listen again, but mostly it has stayed in the past. Recently, I tried to expose my kids to some of that music (Switchfoot, MxPx, and five iron frenzy, etc.) but they didn’t take to it. 😅 Anyway, great podcast!
Keep searching!
Rock That Doesn't Roll is a great topic, good production and told from a one sided point of view that American evangelicalism is irredeemable. According to the pod, Evangelicalism’s lack of inclusion for LGBTQ, equality amongst genders, race (white dominance), and lack of opportunity have left a sea of bodies in the wake of the movement’s course.
The pod falls into chronological snobbery of judging evangelical music from 20-40 years ago based on the sensibilities and preferences that are popular today. Neither Dr. Paynes book nor the pod seem to acknowledge this. The hosts do not talk about their own bias, experience, and assumptions which would be standard practice as an academic, reporter, and historian. Either they have someone mastered the ability to be objective or the hosts have hidden their own preferences behind the veil of objective reporting. I also looked at Dr. Pyane’s website to try and find her story but I did not see it there either.
I think it is disappointing that the scholarship in academia around evangelicalism funnels down to a few things; LGBTQ identity politics, race, gender, and capitalism and all the evils thereof. All the interviews end up pointing to these issues, there is no other side presented. There is no positive side presented. I find this to be great marketing but not intellectually honest reporting. There is going to be good with the bad but it seems to only present the bad.
I was hoping for something better that I could recommend to others but like The Rise and Fall of Mars Hill, which may be what they are hoping to emulate, I would just put this into the category of entertainment failure. It promotes deconstruction and allows those who have deconstructed to be the representative voices of evangelicalism. Letting fringe outliers or ex-members of the movement speak as if they are the current majority, as if they are representing the movement, is not very credible.
I was hoping for something that could report the good evangelicalism has done and the bad at the same time. I don't think this is it. Keep searching!