What Can We Do In These Powerful Times‪?‬ David Bent

Alex Evans is Founder and Executive Director of Larger Us, a "community of change-makers who share the aim of using psychology for good – to bridge divides, build broader coalitions and bring people together" (Alex's Twitter).


Alex set up Larger Us to flip society from a breakdown dynamic and into a breakthrough dynamic. That means paying attention to hwo the state of world impacts our state of mind, how our state of mind how we show up, and how we affect others through our behaviour, especially in a primed and fast-hyper-connected world.


We were speaking a month on from Hamas attacking Isreal, adn the Isreali response. Alex had written a fantastic blog post on how to make sense and respond without just accelerating the conflict.


He says the real tussle of our times is between those two perspectives : zero-sum  ('for me to win, you must lose) or nonzero sum ('for me to win, you must win also'). If we want contribute to towards nonzero sum outcomes, and avoid feeding conflict, then it starts with managing our own mental and emotional states."


For Alex this part of a wider sense that the kind of moment humankind is now living through it is a sort of initiation threshold. We need a deep story that's capable of holding the immense difficulty and intensity and all the contradictions of this moment that we're living through.




Links
Alex's book: The Myth Gap
Rupert Read's Climate Majority Project
Larger Us: Climate Conversations
Deep Canvassing (on Wikipedia)
The Larger Us Podcast: How to change people's minds - with Dave Fleischer
Radical Love campaign in The Atlantic and The Alternative (I couldn't find the Book of Radical Love on the Larger Us website).
Confronting the Long Crisis of Globalization (2010)
The Long Crisis COVID scenarios
Alex's blog post on the Middle East.
Ways to Get Involved with Larger Us
The Age of Endarkenment essay by Michael Ventura


Timings
0:50 - Q1 What are you doing now? And how did you get there?
23:35 - Q2. What is the future you are trying to create, and why?
32:18 - Q3. What are your priorities for the next few years, and why?
38:40 - Q4. If someone was inspired to follow those priorities, what should they do next?
42:15 - Q5. If your younger self was starting their career now, what advice would you give them?
46:43 Q6. Who would you nominate to answer these questions, because you admire their approach?
51:11 Q7. Is there anything else important you feel you have to say?
Twitter: Powerful_Times

Website hub: here.

Please do like and subscribe, to help others find the podcast.

Thank you for listening! -- David

Dave Snowden (Twitter, LinkedIn) is Founder and Chief Scientific Officer of The Cynefin Co. 
The Cynefin Co is "the world leader in developing management approaches (in society, government and industry) that empower organisations to absorb uncertainty, detect weak signals to enable sense-making in complex systems, act on the rich data, create resilience and, ultimately, thrive in a complex world". The Cynefin Framework is a decision support framework, a way of determining what method to adopt in this particular situation.
Dave is a thorough-to-brusque practitioner and thinker using Complex Adaptive Systems (a dynamic network of interactions where the behaviour of the ensemble is not predictable from the components, and which is able to adapt to changing circumstances).
Two key points I take from our conversation:
-Don't focus on changing people (for which there is little evidence of success). Instead, focus on changing the connections people have with other people opens up more possibility for the whole assembly. 
-From a complexity view, the world is constantly changing and the information you have is partial. Better to be responsive to what's happening around you, rather than having aplan which will be immediately out of date.


Links
Probably the most recent full explanation of the Cynefin Framework and how to us it is here. "Managing complexity (and chaos) in times of crisis. A field guide for decision makers inspired by the Cynefin framework" published by the EU. 
SenseMaker® is a distributed ethnographic approach to understanding a situation. By allowing respondents to give meaning to their own experience, it avoids the epistemic injustice of third-party of algorithmic interpretations. 
"SenseMaker® allows the powerful combination of vast amounts of data, with the rich context of narrative, based on the anecdotes of real people going about their real lives. Very importantly, SenseMaker® places the voices and interpretations of people at the centre, instead of privileging those in power."
Camino de Santiago


Timings
0:50 - Q1 What are you doing now? And how did you get there?
6:03 - Q2. What is the future you are trying to create, and why?
11:52 - Q3. What are your priorities for the next few years, and why?
20:58 - Q4. If someone was inspired to follow those priorities, what should they do next?
22:46 - Q5. If your younger self was starting their career now, what advice would you give them?
25:52 - Q6. Who would you nominate to answer these questions, because you admire their approach?
26:58 - Q7. Is there anything else important you feel you have to say?
Twitter: Powerful_Times

Website hub: here.

Please do like and subscribe, to help others find the podcast.

Thank you for listening! -- David

Ella Saltmarshe sits "at the intersection of culture, narrative and systems change" (website, LinkedIn, twitter). She describes herself as a founder, systems change specialist, anthropologist, writer, podcaster, teacher, activist, and (as of very recently) a mother.
We recorded this interview on 31 October 2023, only a few weeks into the Isreal-Gaza conflict. Anyone who follows Ella's work will have seen her recent focus on that conflict. For the start of any International Women's Day events (8 Mar 2024), she suggested people use some acknowledgements. This one spoke to me in particular:

"Before we start, let's take a moment to acknowledge and remember the extreme suffering and terror experienced by women in Gaza, Israel and the west bank over recent months. The 195 women killed by Hamas on October 7th, the at least 14 female hostages still remaining in Gaza.  
The 8,570 (and growing number of) Palestinian women who have been killed by Israel. The 5500 women who are due to give birth in Gaza over the next month with no medical facilities, with 40% of those pregnancies classified as high risk. 
May our actions contribute to their safety. 
May we support each other in working for an immediate ceasefire. As women, may we demonstrate what international solidarity looks like, today and everyday. "


Our conversation focused on the role of culture and narrative in helping us transition to a regenerative future. In particular, how we are really messy, irrational, emotional creatures. So we need to be working at the level of emotions. The things that move us emotionally are stories.


In particular, Ella is focused on nurturing cultures that have stewardship at their core.

She suggests building communities around the questions that move you.


Links
Long Time Project "aims to galvanise public imagination and collective action to help us all be good ancestors."
Long Time Academy
Inter-Narratives. Subscribe to the newsletter here.
More on my late wife's work on the use of time in child and adolescent psychotherapy here.
You can hear Steve Waygood explain Macro-Stewardship here.


Timings
0:56 - Q1 What are you doing now? And how did you get there?
9:35: BONUS QUESTION: What is it that you mean by narrative?
17:43 - Q2. What is the future you are trying to create, and why?
19:53 - Q3. What are your priorities for the next few years, and why?
22:58 - Q4. If someone was inspired to follow those priorities, what should they do next?
26:01 - Q5. If your younger self was starting their career now, what advice would you give them?
28: 59 - Q6. Who would you nominate to answer these questions, because you admire their approach?
29:41 - Q7. Is there anything else important you feel you have to say?
Twitter: Powerful_Times

Website hub: here.

Please do like and subscribe, to help others find the podcast.

Thank you for listening! -- David

Jonathon Porritt is a sustainability campaigner and writer (website, Twitter, Wikipedia). After years in the Green Party (while working full-time as a teacher), in 1984 he became director of Friends of the Earth in Britain and then co-founded Forum for the Future in 1996. (One of the other co-founders was Paul Ekins, who I interviewed for Powerful Times here. I worked with Jonathon when I was at Forum, 2003-2016.)

Jonathon was also Chair of the UK Sustainable Develop Commission for nine years (2000-2009) and Chancellor of Keele University (2012-2022).
He has been at the forefront of sustainability, in business and also government, for the last 30 years. We spoke in November 2023, just after he had, in his own words, extricated himself from the roles which had been very present in that time, including stepped back from any role in Forum.
For Jonathon, at the heart of sustainable development is this very simple, but massively powerful notion of intergenerational justice. That is still provides the rationale for everything that he does and allows him to envision ways in which 8 billion today and 10 billion people in the future could live reasonably good lives in the future.
One telling reflection: a focus on positive solutions for the last 30 years has put Jonathon's anger on hold, and he now feels that has been problematic. He's moving back into campaigning, being less reasonable with those who deserve our anger, and also still constantly absorbing in the solutions to the problems we face.


Links
Brundtland Commission definition of sustainable development:
"Sustainable development is development that meets the needs of the present without compromising the ability of future generations to meet their own needs."


Jonathon's latest book, Hope in Hell.


Grist Imagine 2220


Timings
00:56 - Q1. What are you doing now? And how did you get there?
3:55 -Q2. What is the future you are trying to create, and why?
7:35 - Q3. What are your priorities for the next few years, and why?
10:31 - Q4. If someone was inspired to follow those priorities, what should they do next?
14:00 Q5. If your younger self was starting their career now, what advice would you give them?
19:37 - Q6. Who would you nominate to answer these questions, because you admire their approach?
22:36 - Q7. Is there anything else important you feel you have to say?

More details here.
Twitter: Powerful_Times

Website hub: here.

Please do like and subscribe, to help others find the podcast.

Thank you for listening! -- David

Kim Polman is Co-Founder & Chair of Reboot the Future, a fellow of the Aspen Institute and co-founder and chair of the Kilamanjaro Blind Trust (bio on the Reboot website, LinkedIn, Twitter). The purpose of Reboot the Future acts on the belief that a better future is possible if we follow the Golden Rule, that we treat others and the planet as we’d wish to be treated.
In the conversation we dive into the Golden Rule and how that is applied in Reboot The Future. Plus how Kim is a late blooming baby boomer, who didn't get in front of a microphone until she was 60. She also touches on the importance of love, almost as a practice to be resilient and attract opportunities. Plus, how we are all leaders in our own spheres, and so we can all take action.
Note: there's a moment at about 10 minutes where my connection freeze. But it is barely noticeable.


Links
The Golden Rule on wikipedia. The first book Kim co-authored on The Golden Rule: "Imaginal Cells: Visions of Transformation"
Pope's encyclical on climate change Laudato si' (wikipedia entry, English version on Vatican website).
Imaginal cells on wikipedia.
Evolutionary Leaders
Transcendence by Gaia Vince
The second book Kim co-wrote: Values for a Life Economy.
Powerful Times interview with Tim Jackson.
More on the 'Inner Game of Tennis' here.
Global Dimension.
Executive Masterclass on the Golden Rule.


Timings
0:56 - Q1 What are you doing now? And how did you get there?
17:16 - Q2. What is the future you are trying to create, and why?
27:50 - Q3. What are your priorities for the next few years, and why?
31:05 - Q4. If someone was inspired to follow those priorities, what should they do next?
33:01 - Q5. If your younger self was starting their career now, what advice would you give them?
35:33 - Q6. Who would you nominate to answer these questions, because you admire their approach?
36:53 - Q7. Is there anything else important you feel you have to say?
Twitter: Powerful_Times

Website hub: here.

Please do like and subscribe, to help others find the podcast.

Thank you for listening! -- David

Prof Jacquie McGlade (Twitter, Wikipedia) is an administrator, academic, advocate and more besides. Currently she is Professor of Natural Prosperity, Sustainable Development and Knowledge Systems at UCL (which is how I know her) and a lecturer at Strathmore Business School in Nairobi, which is where she lives. She is married to a Maasai village chief.
In a frankly amazing career, Jacquie has been a scientist, the executive director of the European Environment Agency, and the Chief Scientist at UNEP. She is also a co-founder and Chief Scientific Officer of Downforce Technologies, a pioneer in science-led, data-driven land management solutions focused on optimising soil health, soil organic carbon levels, and biodiversity (I had a small part in setting up Downforce Technologies).
Jacquie has a rare combination of (Western) science and indigenous knowledge. She is like the fish she studied for her PhD, able to travel into the oceans and back into fresh water. 
The striking themes are on:
-The need for high quality data people trust so they can make new decisions.
-The importance of having enough people in society trying something new, so society can evolve.
-Ensuring her village can thrive without Western tourism income.


Links
UCL Institute for Global Prosperity
UNEP
UNDP
Ilya Prigogine, Nobel prize-winning chemist, was one of the foundational thinkers of what is now called complex systems,because of his discoveries of self-organisation.
UCL Citizen Science Academy
Wellbeing Economy Alliance
Chris Smaje -- A Small Farm Future
Jacquie's Gresham Lectures are at the bottom of this link.
Achim Steiner
Crispin Tickell
Vincent Ogotu
Vandana Shiva 




Timings
0:50 - Q1 What are you doing now? And how did you get there?
13:39 - Q2. What is the future you are trying to create, and why?
22:22 - Q3. What are your priorities for the next few years, and why?
25:36 - Q4. If someone was inspired to follow those priorities, what should they do next?
28:35 - Q5. If your younger self was starting their career now, what advice would you give them?
31:25 - Q6. Who would you nominate to answer these questions, because you admire their approach?
36;12 - Q7. Is there anything else important you feel you have to say?
Twitter: Powerful_Times

Website hub: here.

Please do like and subscribe, to help others find the podcast.

Thank you for listening! -- David