De Verbranders

Our guest today is Ghassan Hage, a professor of anthropology at the University of Melbourne in Australia. Today, we talk with Ghassan, not about Europe’s borders, but about Palestine, and the intensification of the destruction of life in Gaza at the hands of the Israeli state and the powers that support it. We recorded our conversation a few weeks ago, in January 2024. As I record this introduction, I am struck by how difficult it is to find words that speak to the moment we are in. We are witnessing military attacks of unimaginable brutality, with countless bodies still to be found under the rubble. Alongside this obliteration of Palestinian life, we see the destruction of the conditions of possibility for life, with the bombing of water wells, tanks, greenhouses, food depots, ports, fishing boats, hospitals, schools, and bakeries. At the same time, as Ghassan points out, this violence is not new, but an intensification of the structural, settler colonial violence inflicted upon the Palestinians for the past 76 years and more. We must pause and reflect on the histories that made it possible for Gaza to become the place it is today, a place where Israel can cut off the supply of water, food and electricity to Gaza, turning hunger and thirst into weapons of war. As Ghassan points out, violence is inherent in the very existence of Gaza. Where does the legitimacy of such violence come from? How do we accept living in a world where it is normalized? Ghassan identifies the root of the problem as the virtual absence of the very thought of negotiating one’s existence with others, creating the fantasy in Israel that supremacy over everyone is possible. This fantasy is fueled by a frightening racism that makes it such that Palestinians can be treated as if their death is meaningless. In the episode, Ghassan describes Israel as an ethno-racial state and as a meta-colony, a colonialism of all colonial powers. This means responsibility lies not only with the Israeli government but also with the meta-colonial powers that make this destruction possible, in the form of massive military aid and diplomatic support. And we must dig deeper, and think about the global infrastructures in place that provide the materials and cover necessary to sustain this onslaught and find ways to challenge it. We close the episode with a reflection on the future. Israel as an ethno-racial state, Ghassan asserts, is going to come to an end. The question is what kind of an end. Tragically, with massacres and counter-massacres? Or through a negotiated mode of existence where everyone can live together? Let us work towards the latter. In the episode, we play a clip of Refaat Alareer, the writer, poet, professor, and activist, who was killed by an Israeli airstrike on the 6th of December 2023, along with several members of his family. Refaat was a professor at the Islamic University of Gaza. He also co-founded the We Are Not Numbers project, which provided writing workshops for young Palestinians. We close the episode with a recital of one of Refaat’s poems, titled, ‘If I must die, let it become a tale’. It became widely shared and recited at protests all over the world after he was killed. The recital we use is read by Peter Griffin and can be found here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k0zYDME9oaw

Our guests in this episode are Bridget Anderson, Cynthia Wright, and Nandita Sharma. We speak to them about their editorial called “Why no Borders”, which they published in 2008. In it, they distill the scholarship on borders at the time, in order to draw the conclusion that we should get rid of borders. Taking the editorial as our starting point, we speak about collaboration, and the joy of working together with people with whom we share a politics, and a sense of humor. And we talk about no borders as a practical political project, that is carried out in the here and now, by all of us who refuse to conform to nationalized borders. Bridget, Cynthia, and Nandita bring two pieces of music to the episode: No One Is Illegal, by Renovatio, and Absolute Power, by Akala. We recorded this episode right after the Maritime Solidarities conference that brought Bridget, Cynthia, and Nandita to Amsterdam in September of 2023. This was a few weeks before the Israeli state took the Hamas attack on the 7th of October as an opportunity to escalate the destruction of Palestinian life in Gaza and the Westbank. We don’t speak about Palestine in the episode. But, as we publish this in January 2024, we want to state that the freedom dreams we express in this conversation apply to Palestine in Particular. And right now, we must act. We must reject this total destruction of life. We must resist the occupation, we must resist settler colonialism, and we must resist ethnic-nationalist states. And, we must refuse to lose, as Bridget puts it in this episode. Graphic design by Thomas from Dark Roast (www.instagram.com/thomas.darkroast) Theme music: David (guitar) and Joris (drums) Theme music: Allen (accordion) and Neske (violin), after Doina from the Fanfare Ciocarlia

Our guest today is Hidaya Nampiima, co-founder and spokesperson of Amsterdam City Rights, an organisation of people living in Amsterdam with and without the right papers. What is Amsterdam like if you don’t have a BSN number? When you are shut out from healthcare, schooling, housing, education, legal work, and political participation? Hidaya talks about becoming undocumented and being pushed onto the streets, to then pick up her pieces and find her voice by challenging injustice. There is no such thing as being undocumented, she explains. It’s the system that creates undocumented people. Graphic design by Thomas from Dark Roast (www.instagram.com/thomas.darkroast) Theme music: David (guitar) and Joris (drums) Theme music: Allen (accordion)and Neske (violin), after Doina from the Fanfare Ciocarlia During the episode, we listen to two pieces by Bobi Wine: - his song Freedom - a speech he gave at the 2022 Geneva Summit for Human Rights and Democracy

In de aflevering vandaag spreken we met Roos Ykema, van MiGreat. MiGreat werd vorig jaar bekend door de hulp die ze boden in ter Apel, toen honderden mensen noodgedwongen op het veld voor het aanmeldcentrum voor asielzoekers moesten slapen. Daar zag Roos hoe op allerlei manieren en door allerlei beslissingen een crisis werd gecreëerd, en hoe vervolgens die crisis uitnodigde tot nieuwe harde maatregelen. Verder hebben we het met Roos over haar politieke ontwikkeling, over hoe noodhulp gebruikt kan worden door het grenssysteem, en ook, hoe het een springplank kan zijn voor verzet en systeemverandering. Ten slotte spreken we over het politieke werk dat MiGreat doet, zoals rechtszaken aanspannen samen met mensen in asielzoekerscentra, het organiseren van demonstraties, en het opzetten van politieke campagnes. En we luisteren naar Mississippi Goddam van Nina Simone, naar Don’t Hurt Yourself van Beyonce, en naar een prachtige speech van spoken-word artist Lev Avitan: https://levavitan.nl/ Zoals altijd zijn we benieuwd naar jullie gedachten! Je kunt een reactie achterlaten op onze Instagram of Twitter, of ons een mailtje sturen naar deverbranderspodcast@gmail.com Graphic design: Thomas, van Dark Roast (www.instagram.com/thomas.darkroast) Thema muziek: David (guitar) and Joris (drums) Thema muziek: Allen (accordion)and Neske (violin) – Doina van Fanfare Ciocarlia

In this episode of de Verbranders, we talk to Gracie Mae Bradley about a book she co-wrote with Luke de Noronha, called “Against Borders: The Case for Abolition”. In it, they draw inspiration from prison abolitionism and the black feminist politics that shape it, and they bring that body of thought and practice to the work of organising against borders. We talk about the harm borders do, the hierarchies they produce, and the importance of dismantling them. And we talk about how prison abolitionism teaches us to do this work of dismantling alongside the equally important work of building the worlds we want to live in, with the ultimate goal of shrinking borders into non-existence. We also ask Gracie about what it is she loves, and the kinds of worlds she dreams of and is fighting for. We asked her to bring three pieces of art, which we weave into the conversation. Enjoy! Graphic design by Thomas from Dark Roast (www.instagram.com/thomas.darkroast) Theme music: David (guitar) and Joris (drums) Theme music: Allen (accordion)and Neske (violin), after Doina from the Fanfare Ciocarlia During the episode, we listen to Philip Glass' Dance No. 4, and Gracie reads from Alexis Pauline Gumbs' "Undrowned" and from a stunning poem she wrote, called "On Ending"

In our conversation today, we talk to Luke de Noronha about his book Deporting Black Britons: Portraits of deportation to Jamaica. Meant as a contribution to the collective struggle against racism and deportation, the book tells the life stories of four men who grew up in the UK, were deported to Jamaica following criminal conviction, and now struggle to survive and rebuild their lives in the Caribbean. We start the conversation talking about Luke’s process of conducting research for this book. We talk about his friendship with the four men he writes about, and what this friendhip meant – and continues to mean - for his work as a researcher. We also talk about Jamaica, the legacies of slavery, colonialism and ongoing neocolonialism that explain Jamaica’s relative position to the UK, and the immense amount of ignorance on the effects of these legacies in the European nation-states we speak from. We end our conversation discussing Luke’s forthcoming book on border abolition, called ‘against borders: the case for abolition’ which he wrote together with Gracie Mae Bradley. In it, Luke and Gracie argue we must transform society and our relationships to one another, and build a world in which everyone has the freedom to move and to stay.

Our guest today is Polly Pallister-Wilkins. We talk to Polly about humanitarian borderwork. Polly came up with this term to point to the complicated relationship between violent mobility injustice and the life-saving rescue efforts that occur in response. What does it mean when humanitarianism is the main response to death and suffering at the border? What lines can be drawn between today’s humanitarian borders, colonialism and white supremacy? Graphic design by Thomas from Dark Roast (www.instagram.com/thomas.darkroast) Theme music: David (guitar) and Joris (drums) Theme music: Allen (accordion) and Neske (violin), after Doina from the Fanfare Ciocarlia

Our guest today is Nandita Sharma. Nandita is a professor of sociology at the University of Hawaii and an active member of several social movements, including the No Borders movement and movements struggling for the planetary commons. In our conversation today, we talk about Nandita's recent book Home Rule: National sovereignty and the separation of natives and migrants (2020). In this book, she profoundly questions the idea that humanity can be divided up into nations, and that each nation can claim a particular place on this earth and demarcate it as theirs. As countless historical and contemporary examples show, Nandita explains, such claims can always be mobilized against other people who are seen not to be native, and who therefore can have their rights removed, be excluded, expelled or even exterminated. We also talk about the hardening of nationalisms across the political spectrum and the need to organize for a world that is profoundly about non-exclusion. As climate catastrophe intensifies, people are going to be moving for their lives at a scale that is unprecedented. How are we going to transform the way that we respond to such movements, so that we don’t simply accept mass death at the world’s borders? As Nandita argues, it truly is a matter of survival that we learn to imagine ourselves as a political community on a planetary level. The dismantling of borders, Nandita argues, is an essential step in our struggle toward a decolonization worth fighting for. Graphic design by Thomas from Dark Roast (www.instagram.com/thomas.darkroast) Theme music: David (guitar) and Joris (drums) Theme music: Allen (accordion) and Neske (violin), after Doina from the Fanfare Ciocarlia

Jazie is activist en strijd sinds 2020 als fractievoorzitter van BIJ1 in de gemeenteraad in Amsterdam, onder andere tegen het algemene ontmoedigingsbeleid dat er op gericht is om het voor niet-rijke en geracialiseerde mensen uit voormalige koloniën zo moeilijk mogelijk te maken om naar Nederland te komen en hier een leven op te bouwen. Dat ontmoedigen gebeurt vooral door steeds selectiever grensbeleid en de koppelingswet die sinds 1998 van kracht is en verblijfstatus aan toegang tot legaal werk en overheidsvoorzieningen koppelt. In de aflevering vertelt Jazie over hoe dat ontmoedigingsbeleid er in de praktijk uitziet en welke mogelijkheden de gemeente Amsterdam zou hebben om tegen het rijk in te gaan. Hij stelt bijvoorbeeld voor dat de gemeente haar eigen opvang regelt, dus een opvang die niet gekoppeld is aan het landelijke terugkeerbeleid, en om geillegaliseerden toegang te geven tot Amsterdamse onderwijsinstellingen. Ten slotte benadrukt hij hoe belangrijk juist buitenparlementaire politiek is in het teweeg brengen van verandering. NB: de opname voor deze aflevering vonden plaats op 1 juli 2021. Tussen toen en het moment van publiceren is er veel veranderd, zowel mondiaal als in de lokale politiek. llustraties door B. Carrot, o.a. uit Alle Dagen Ui, uitgegeven door Soul Food Comics. Voor meer B. Carrot zie www.instagram.com/bcarrotdraws/ en www.bcarrot.nl Grafische vormgeving door Thomas van Dark Roast (www.instagram.com/thomas.darkroast/) Themamuziek: David (gitaar) en Joris (drums) Themamuziek: Allen (accordeon) en Neske (viool), naar Doina van de Fanfare Ciocarlia

We talk to Sami about illegalization in the Netherlands, and about the Landelijk Vreemdelingen Voorziening, a temporary shelter that offers no solutions, because people are being deported against their will, or, if they cannot be deported, end up on the street again. At the moment, politicians are debating whether or not the LVV should continue until after it’s initial period of one and a half year. In the meantime, people are being put on the street. So, Sami and a few of his comrades decided to start the group “We Are Still Here”. Together, they are saying loud and clear that it is time to end temporary solution and to provide permanent residency permits for all. If you’d like to know more, and/or get involved, check out https://permanentverblijf.org/ Graphic design by Thomas from Dark Roast (www.instagram.com/thomas.darkroast) Theme music: David (guitar) and Joris (drums) Theme music: Allen (accordion) and Neske (violin), after Doina from the Fanfare Ciocarlia

We talk to Maryla about her research on how Polish border guards use their discretionary power, or the wiggle room they have as they implement the law. Maryla worked with polish border guards for half a year, first at one of the regional headquarters and then at three different outposts, where she went on ride-alongs to see for herself how border guards carry out their work on the ground. She describes the nationalist and blatantly racist and sexist ways in which border guards talk about their work and people on the move, and the violence that they deploy when they stop and check people for their documents, take them to the station, and deport them. She also describes the nationalist and sexist ways in which she herself was addressed by some of these border guards, and how being in this violent context impacted her then and now. To us, Maryla’s descriptions show that violence is not only the result of how migration laws are implemented, but actually inherent to these laws, and specifically the distinction that they make between people who have a right to move and stay and those who have not. lllustrations by B. Carrot, i.a. from Alle Dagen Ui, published by Soul Food Comics. For more of B. Carrot see www.instagram.com/bcarrotdraws and www.bcarrot.nl Graphic design by Thomas from Dark Roast (www.instagram.com/thomas.darkroast) Theme music: David (guitar) and Joris (drums) Theme music: Allen (accordion)and Neske (violin), after Doina from the Fanfare Ciocarlia

Dit is deel 2 van ons gesprek met Joyce en Sinne. Joyce en Sinne zetten zich al jaren actief in als supporters van Wij Zijn Hier, een groep mensen die sinds 2012 door Amsterdam trekt om collectief te protesteren tegen het Nederlandse vreemdelingenbeleid. Mocht je nog niet hebben geluisterd naar de eerste aflevering dan raden we je aan dat te doen! In deze aflevering spreken we over de laatste jaren van Wij Zijn Hier, onder burgemeester Femke Halsema. We praten over de introductie van de LVV, de Landelijke Vreemdelingen Voorziening, en de pogingen van de gemeente om Wij Zijn Hier daarin op te nemen zonder te luisteren naar de behoeften van de mensen zelf. En we praten over de toekomst van Wij Zijn Hier, hoe solidariteit met geïllegaliseerde mensen er uitziet in een situatie waarin diepe ongelijkheid wordt gecreëerd, de gevaren van white saviorism, en wat je kunt doen om geïllegaliseerde mensen in Nederland te ondersteunen. llustraties door B. Carrot, o.a. uit Alle Dagen Ui, uitgegeven door Soul Food Comics. Voor meer B. Carrot zie www.instagram.com/bcarrotdraws/ en www.bcarrot.nl Grafische vormgeving door Thomas van Dark Roast (www.instagram.com/thomas.darkroast/) Muziek: Pazzo Mato van Caspian Hat Dance. https://www.caspianhatdance.com/ Muziek: We Are Here Band, optreden in de Paradiso op 10 feb 2013. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0qkUkF_R6Ik Themamuziek: David (gitaar) en Joris (drums) Themamuziek: Allen (accordeon) en Neske (viool), naar Doina van de Fanfare Ciocarlia

In de aflevering vandaag spreken we met Joyce en Sinne. Joyce en Sinne zetten zich al jaren actief in als supporters van Wij Zijn Hier, een groep mensen die sinds 2012 door Amsterdam trekt om collectief te protesteren tegen het Nederlandse vreemdelingenbeleid. Dit is deel 1 van ons gesprek. Vanaf volgende week kun je luisteren naar deel 2. We spreken over de eerste jaren van Wij Zijn Hier, van de Notweg tot aan de Vluchtgarage. Joyce en Sinne vertellen hoe Wij Zijn Hier tot stand kwam, waarom kraken door de jaren heen de enige manier bleek om het protest van de groep door te laten gaan en de groep bij elkaar te houden, hoe de gemeente Amsterdam onder voormalig burgemeester van der Laan op die verschillende gekraakte panden en protesten heeft gereageerd, en over de verdeel en heers politiek die van het begin af aan met de groep vanuit het rijk en de gemeente gespeeld werd.

This is our second episode with Barak Kalir. In this episode, we talk about Barak's research into deportation in Spain. We talk about the organizational culture of the Spanish police and their focus on deporting what they refer to as "foreign criminals." We talk about the so-called tragedy of Tarajal, and why we should really refer to this event as a racist attack. And we talk about the role of NGOs in implementing "voluntary" returns, and what voluntary really means in this context. And finally, we talk about Barak’s concept "departheid." How it helps us think about the colonial roots of borders, how it points to how access to mobility is structurally racialized, and how it draws attention to the forms of racism people encounter as they move through borders in their daily lives.

Our guest today is Rosa from the Alarm Phone. We talk to Rosa about the situation at the Turkish – Greek border. In the past few years, Greek authorities have increasingly pushed back people on the move, using more and more violence. This is happening both at sea, where the Greek coast guard forces people back into Turkish waters, and on the land border, where the Greek border police detains people before driving them back to Turkey. Rosa explains how important the videos and testimonies of people on the move are in documenting these violent practices. She also talks about attempts by authorities to prevent people on the move from doing this important work of counter-mapping. Music: Kaigomai, Kaigomai by Stella Haskil and Takis Mpinis lllustrations by B. Carrot, i.a. from Alle Dagen Ui, published by Soul Food Comics. For more of B. Carrot see www.instagram.com/bcarrotdraws and www.bcarrot.nl Graphic design by Thomas from Dark Roast (www.instagram.com/thomas.darkroast) Theme music: David (guitar) and Joris (drums) Theme music: Allen (accordion)and Neske (violin), after Doina from the Fanfare Ciocarlia

In this episode, we talk to Deanna & Hela (Alarm Phone) about the current situation in the Central Mediterranean Sea, and the work Alarm Phone does in that context. Deanna & Hela explain how European coordination is increasingly directed, not at rescuing people, but at preventing people from being rescued and being brought to Europe, resulting in deaths at sea and pushbacks to Libya. Music by Caspian Hat Dance - U rusciu te lu mare lllustrations by B. Carrot, i.a. from Alle Dagen Ui, published by Soul Food Comics. For more of B. Carrot see www.instagram.com/bcarrotdraws and www.bcarrot.nl Graphic design by Thomas from Dark Roast (www.instagram.com/thomas.darkroast) Theme music: David (guitar) and Joris (drums) Theme music: Allen (accordion)and Neske (violin), after Doina from the Fanfare Ciocarlia

Nowadays, states have a monopoly to control migration. And because this is the case, we tend to think of this monopoly as a natural and defining element of state sovereignty, as something that has been around for as long as states have existed. Radhika argues that this is not the case. State control over migration is only a recent aspect of the state. Our conversation today roughly follows the arc of Radhika’s 2018 book, Indian Migration and Empire: A Colonial Genealogy of the Modern State. In it, she looks at Indian colonial migrations from about 1834, when Britain abolished slavery, up until the First World War. Radhika explains how the movements of these Indians was crucial to the emergence of the first forms of state control of mobility. In other words, the regulation of colonial migrations played a critical part in bringing about borders. Throughout the conversation, Radhika emphasizes the entanglements of the colonial state and the modern state, as well as the crucial role race and racisms played in shaping the passport inequality we know today. Book: Mongia, Radhika (2018). Indian Migration and Empire: A Colonial Genealogy of the Modern State. Music: Hüseyni Peşrev (Lavtacı Andon) by Michalis Kouloumis (Violin) and Baha Yetkin (Turkish Oud) lllustrations by B. Carrot, i.a. from Alle Dagen Ui, published by Soul Food Comics. For more of B. Carrot see www.instagram.com/bcarrotdraws and www.bcarrot.nl Graphic design by Thomas from Dark Roast (www.instagram.com/thomas.darkroast) Theme music: David (guitar) and Joris (drums) Theme music: Allen (accordion)and Neske (violin), after Doina from the Fanfare Ciocarlia

Over de grenzen tussen “wij” en “zij” die door het tegen elkaar afzetten van gender- en seksualiteitsnormen gecreëerd werden. Saskia vertelt hoe die grens in de Nederlandse koloniën en tijdens de dekolonisatie tastbaar werd gemaakt via het personen- en familierecht, dat bepaalde wie er wel en niet Nederlander was en hoe je Nederlander kon worden en hoe die grens later en tot op de dag vandaag tastbaar wordt gemaakt via het familieherenigingsbeleid, dat bepaalt wie er wel en niet partners en familie van elkaar zijn, en dus voor hereniging in aanmerking komen. llustraties door B. Carrot, o.a. uit Alle Dagen Ui, uitgegeven door Soul Food Comics. Voor meer B. Carrot zie www.instagram.com/bcarrotdraws/ en www.bcarrot.nl Grafische vormgeving door Thomas van Dark Roast (www.instagram.com/thomas.darkroast/) Themamuziek: David (gitaar) en Joris (drums) Themamuziek: Allen (accordeon) en Neske (viool), naar Doina van de Fanfare Ciocarlia

Over de reeks van obstakels die Nederland opwierp om er voor te zorgen dat Seawatch niet meer onder Nederlandse vlag zou varen, in de context van een op Europees niveau gecoördineerde strategie om zeenoodredding door ngo's en activisten zo moeilijk mogelijk te maken. Muziek: Heading on back to the the hills van The Bucket Boyz. Voor meer, zie https://thebucketboyz.bandcamp.com/ llustraties door B. Carrot, o.a. uit Alle Dagen Ui, uitgegeven door Soul Food Comics. Voor meer B. Carrot zie www.instagram.com/bcarrotdraws/ en www.bcarrot.nl Grafische vormgeving door Thomas van Dark Roast (www.instagram.com/thomas.darkroast/) Themamuziek: David (gitaar) en Joris (drums) Themamuziek: Allen (accordeon) en Neske (viool), naar Doina van de Fanfare Ciocarlia

Saied Al Karim arrived to Schiphol Airport in Amsterdam in 2016, applied for asylum, was rejected, and subsequently moved to an immigration detention center. He was kept there for fourteen months, after which he was put on the street because he was deemed 'undeportable'. Many months later, he was granted asylum. In this episode, he shares his insights on the Dutch detention and deportation regime and the people that work for it, and talks about his efforts to resist the system from inside the prison. For more on immigration detention in the Netherlands, see www.stichtinglos.nl and www.meldpuntvreemdelingendetentie.nl. And listen to episode 5 with Barak Kalir. For more about Saied's experience inside immigration detention, see the beautiful graphic novel Alle Dagen Ui by B. Carrot, published by Soul Food Comics, and for more by B. Carrot, see www.bcarrot.nl or www.instagram.com/bcarrotdraws Music: Ya Habibi Ta'ala by Lynn Adib and Zeid Hamdan Graphic design by Thomas from Dark Roast (www.instagram.com/thomas.darkroast) Theme music: David (guitar) and Joris (drums) Theme music: Allen (accordion)and Neske (violin), after Doina from the Fanfare Ciocarlia