Litigation Radio

Meet Teresa Beck and Claire Gibson, two successful and experienced litigators who are deeply involved in the ABA Litigation Section’s Woman Advocate Committee and its two books featuring essays from women in the legal profession: “Her Story: Lessons in Success from Lawyers Who Live It” (2017) and the recent follow-up “Her Story: The Resilient Woman Lawyer’s Guide to Conquering Obstacles” (2024). The new book addresses the challenges women face in the legal profession and the things organizations and firms do, often unintentionally, that make it harder for women in law, all told through personal stories of struggles and successes. Beck and Gibson, both committed to diversity, equity, inclusion, and belonging, discuss these collections of stories that tap into the experiences of litigators in a range of practice groups, from corporate to government positions. These are situations that arise everywhere, from the courtroom to the boardroom to the lunchroom. Why do women in law still face so many challenges and obstacles? It’s nice to imagine gender disparity is a relic of the past, but the statistics tell a different story. There is work for all of us to do, not only toward gender equality but also in racial and ethnic disparities in the legal profession. The stories in these books examine situations that exist, even in organizations that believe they have erased barriers. Fixing the problems starts with acknowledging that they persist. Everyone can learn from this discussion. Resources: Women Advocate Committee American Bar Association “Her Story: Lessons In Success For Lawyers Who Live It”  “Her Story: The Resilient Woman Lawyer's Guide To Conquering Obstacles, Book 2”  K. Brooke Welch Jessica Blaemire Michal Rogson Steven Velkei Dunlap, Bennett & Ludwig Klinedinst Attorneys American Bar Association American Bar Association Litigation Section

We return to our series profiling leading litigators and business builders with guest Paula Hinton, a litigation partner and executive committee member with international firm Winston & Strawn. She’s held numerous leadership positions, is recognized across the profession, and handles a variety of complex cases. And she did it her way. “It starts with taking people out to breakfast!” Growing up the daughter of a respected small-town attorney in Alabama, Hinton jokes that she was “Scout” to a real-life Atticus Finch of the novel To Kill a Mockingbird. Hinton learned at a young age the trust clients place in their attorneys and the duty attorneys have to serve clients and the community, in and out of the courthouse. Hinton’s path took her from a small town to big city firms with international clients. Entering an area of the law that at the time featured few women, Hinton made her own way, walking into senior attorneys’ offices and volunteering for the toughest cases. In an era before the phrase “work/life balance,” she learned to manage the demands of high stakes law in balance with her personal life. Throughout, Hinton strove to raise her profile, develop a strong reputation, and build and sustain business relationships through involvement in nonprofit and association work and by making herself available to senior firm members for complex cases. “Don’t wait for them to find you, you go find them,” she says. Hear first-hand Hinton’s tips for building a high-profile career in litigation, leveraging both corporate and American Bar Association relationships, and building on each previous step. Resources: American Bar Association American Bar Association Litigation Section

Round Table Group is a Premier Sponsor of the ABA Litigation Section. On this Litigation Radio episode, we will hear from Russ Rosenzweig, CEO of Round Table Group, about using third parties in expert searches. The selection of the Round Table Group as the subject of this interview should not be construed as an endorsement by the American Bar Association of the Round Table Group and its services. ______________________________________________________ When representing clients with complex issues, there are times when you need an expert witness. A real expert. Someone who will help you dissect, understand, and present key elements to jurors or judges in a way they can understand. Enter Round Table Group, “the experts on experts.” Guest Russ Rosenzweig is CEO and co-founder of a firm that specializes in identifying, enlisting, and providing expert witnesses and consultants across virtually every possible topic with tens of thousands of affiliated leaders in their field. Hear how litigators find and hire an expert, no matter the niche. Remember that scene in “My Cousin Vinny” when Joe Pesci puts his girlfriend, Marisa Tomei, on the stand as a brilliant expert. It doesn’t happen like that. And they don’t teach this in law school. Learn about the search process, search and hire billing rates, and expert fee negotiations. Many lawyers don’t know where to start. They may be missing the best of the best, or they can waste time trying to find the right expert. Many Round Table Group staffers themselves are lawyers, engineers, and experts. They know how to read a patent or dissect evidence to find the exact right expert to help attorneys prove their point and win their case. Learn how a team of professionals can help you identify your needs, craft the right angle, and dial in to the expert who can push your case across the line. Resources: Aminer.org Experts.com Google Scholar PubMed New York Times, “More And More, Expert Witnesses Make The Difference” Daubert Standard, Cornell University American Bar Association American Bar Association Litigation Section

Guest Kathryn “Katie” DeBord leads product development strategy at the global firm DISCO in technological, cloud-based solutions for lawyers and law firms. Tech, from the earliest stages of every case, is no longer an option. Everything from eDiscovery – sifting through oceans of data – to analyzing witness statements to adjusting trial strategy on the fly involves today’s ever-evolving technologies.  Are you keeping up? It’s hard to know with so many services bursting onto the scene. Hear how DeBord scans the landscape to track what’s new, what works, and what’s still in the pipeline.  You’ve come a long way from the LexisNexis and Westlaw you met in law school. Entire suites of tech platforms, all the way up to generative AI, are on the market and getting better. If your opponent is using the latest, and you’re not … well, that’s not good. Autogenerate timelines, upload and organize evidence, and sift through data as today’s tools accelerate your case and reveal hidden connections. Tech won’t replace your creativity and skill as an attorney, but it can help you work smarter, more efficiently, and achieve better results.  (Plus, did you know the CIA has a secret museum of gadgets created by the agency’s Directorate of Science and Technology? And no, you can’t visit it without secret clearance). Resources: Kathyrn “Katie” DeBord’s previous appearances on the Legal Talk Network include:  “Legal Innovation: Imagining Creative Solutions for Clients”  “Evolve Law: The Future and Direction of Legal Technology”  “Evolve Law: Client Driven Technology Solutions”  LexisNexis Westlaw American Bar Association American Bar Association Litigation Section

Newly admitted lawyers can feel overwhelmed and intimidated. Law schools can’t teach everything, and there’s a lot of on-the-job learning. Some of the work is difficult and complicated. Some of what’s required is as simple as showing up on time and doing work that looks perfect and is free of typos (yes, that matters, even for internal communications). With each task, the best new lawyers progress from competence to excellence. Start with the goal of being a “superstar associate” by being the best lawyer you can be. When new lawyers take on tasks and do good work, others will notice and will mentor you. What any new lawyer makes of their earliest experience in any firm will drive them to the next level, no matter their career path. This episode shares tips for standing out and learning how to be a lawyer from two attorneys who have excelled in their careers and have made partner at their respective firms. Plus, a Quick Tip from the ABA Litigation Section’s Mental Health and Wellness Task Force. Hear how attorneys are vulnerable to eating disorders and substance abuse. Learn to recognize the signs. Mentioned in this Episode: “The Addicted Lawyer: Tales of Bars, Booze, Blow, and Redemption,” by Brian Cuban Brian Cuban, blog National Eating Disorder Association American Bar Association American Bar Association Litigation Section

When it comes to your business development goals, guest (and rainmaker) Merrick “Rick” Gross explains the two biggest pools for new clients: internal and external. Internal client development is often overlooked, but it’s as important as finding external clients. Build your book of business through other attorneys at your own firm, especially if you work at a large firm with multiple offices across the country. The principles of internal client development are surprisingly simple. Talk to your colleagues. Be a nice person. Take time to visit your coworkers and listen to them. You can use “cross-marketing” and internal team building to find new clients. Then there are external clients—new business outside your firm. Not surprisingly, the principles are the same. Get out there. Develop personal relationships. Write for publications. Seek out speaking engagements at industry and trade conferences. Join organizations and even have a little fun getting to know people. Nothing replaces being a great lawyer. But these valuable tips provide new tools for building your career and your business. Resources: American Bar Association American Bar Association Litigation Section Carlton Fields law firm

Litigators face a variety of intense stressors including tight deadlines, conflicts with opposing counsel, traumatic issues facing clients, and the competitive nature of litigation. It’s a daily battle. What can lawyers do to maintain their mental and physical well-being, and how can courts engage, recognize, and help address these problems? Host Dave Scriven-Young welcomes three professionals who are actively seeking better methods for lawyers to care for themselves and for the legal system and firms to deliver assistance. Guests Shawn Healy, Ph.D., and attorneys Mala Rafik and Gavin Alexander are deeply involved in lawyer well-being programs. Their work has confirmed that there is a greater need for mental health support and care for lawyers, and also that many in the profession are either unaware of available services or are unwilling to seek help for fear of stigma. The Massachusetts Supreme Judicial Court has been a leading voice in the struggle to support those in the legal profession who are struggling with mental illness, anxiety, substance abuse, and suicidal thoughts. More support is needed. Litigation is a difficult profession. Are you yourself—or is someone you know—struggling? You are not alone. It is OK to ask for help. Learn about available resources and services. And share this episode of Litigation Radio. Mentioned in this Episode: “The Full Weight of the Law: How Legal Professionals Can Recognize and Rebound from Depression,” by Shawn Healy and Jeffrey Fortgang Massachusetts Supreme Judicial Court Standing Committee on Lawyer Well-Being Lawyer Well-Being Massachusetts Lawyers Concerned for Lawyers American Bar Association, “Well-Being in the Legal Profession” “Mental Health Initiatives Aren’t Curbing Lawyer Stress And Anxiety, New Study Shows,” ABA Journal “Making It Back: Bruce Simpson Tried To Take His Own Life, Then He Started Healing,” ABA Journal (ABA membership required) 988 Suicide And Crisis Hotline, Free Confidential Support For People In Crisis American Bar Association American Bar Association Litigation Section

George Floyd was murdered on May 25, 2020, during a brutal arrest by Minneapolis police in public view. His death sparked protests across the country—a call for an end to police brutality. Officer Derek Chauvin was convicted of second-degree murder and pleaded guilty to federal charges, and the three other officers were convicted of state and federal charges. The city of Minneapolis paid George Floyd’s family $27 million.  Minnesota Attorney General Keith Ellison joins this episode to discuss his oversight of the prosecution and conviction of Derek Chauvin, as well as his book, Break The Wheel: Ending the Cycle of Police Violence, a reflection on that trial and lessons learned. Attorney General Ellison explores the findings of his book and his experience representing victims of police violence. He walks us through Chauvin’s prosecution, the trial strategy, jury selection, and how the infamous video shot by a 17-year-old bystander was used in the trial. Can we change policing and rebuild trust between police and communities? What steps can be taken in the fight against police violence? Attorney General Ellison also shares his career path from law school to U.S. Congress, and then becoming the first African American and Muslim America elected to Minnesota statewide office. It’s an inspiring story and proof that following your passion can make a difference. Plus, in our Quick Tip segment: Incorporating storytelling into your legal writing. Resources: George Floyd Justice and Policing Act “Break The Wheel,” by Attorney General Keith Ellison 2024 Environmental & Energy, Mass Torts, and Products Liability Litigation Committees' Joint Regional CLE Program American Bar Association American Bar Association Litigation Section

Americans owe a combined $1.7 trillion in student loans, and the past few years have been a roller coaster ride. Now that the pandemic forbearance is over, what’s next? You may have your own debts, or you may be helping clients deal with these new pressures. What happens if you or your client can’t make a payment or can’t reallocate finances? Now that the pause is over and the bill collector is coming, what options are available to you and your clients? This episode features attorney Latife Neu, who operates her own law firm specializing in student loans and bankruptcy. Student loan repayment is anything but simple, and the pieces are in constant flux. Loan policy has bounced between the Supreme Court and the White House, and the policies are anything but clear. Talk about student loans, parent plus loans, bankruptcy, the pause-restart-pause rules, and it gets complicated in a hurry. There’s nothing simple about this stew of public and private loan borrowing, forgiveness, and repayment. But we can help you understand the questions to ask and the paths to explore.   Join the Litigation Section’s virtual book club on December 12 at 1 PM ET to discuss books and other content focused on personal growth and mental health and wellness! Visit https://www.jotform.com/233055582985163 for more information and to register.   RESOURCES: Public Service Loan Forgiveness (PSLF) IDR (Income Driven Repayment) Account Adjustment More IDR Account Adjustment information Garnishments and Offset Orders for Student Loans  Student Loan Bankruptcy Discharges and Limits (Oh, It’s Complicated) Federal Rules On Discharging Student Loan (Justice Department)  IRS Student Loan Forgiveness Rules, IRS.gov American Bar Association Bar Association Litigation Section

Let’s talk about international arbitration, an indispensable tool for resolving cross-border conflicts. But first, forget everything you think you know about civil procedure, because home court rules might not apply. In this episode, Dave welcomes guest Aurore Nicaud, an associate with Greenberg Traurig and an international arbitration attorney. Listen in as they discuss how this fascinating field differs from standard U.S. civil practice. Discovery is more limited. There are no depositions. Direct examinations are virtually nonexistent. And when the case is over? Winning is one thing, but enforcement across borders is another, and it depends on which countries are signatories to the New York Convention. When you mix competing legal systems, contracts, and languages, things can get complicated in a hurry. Up for the challenge? Mentioned in this Episode: American Bar Association American Bar Association Litigation Section

Let’s talk about the elephant in the courts: judicial ethics. Recent events in the U.S. Supreme Court have refocused the legal profession’s understanding of ethical, unbiased, and fair behavior in our nation’s courts.  Guests in this episode include Charles Geyh, a law professor who studies and writes about judicial ethics, and the honorable Pamela Gates, an Arizona judge actively involved in reviewing ethics policies and the public perception of judicial behavior.  Bias is all around us. We’re human. So are judges. External influences can interact with our own, internal biases, potentially creating conflict. When should judges disqualify themselves for a case where there may be a conflict or the appearance of a conflict? Campaign donations and lobbying in an increasingly politicized judicial environment are creating new questions. Hear potential solutions being developed today to ensure there truly is justice for all.  Honesty, both with ourselves and with others, clear communication, and an intentional review of the issues and cases before us can help ensure public confidence in our judicial system. Protecting the integrity of the judicial branch isn’t easy, but it’s critical to the sustainability of the American court system.  Plus, a quick tip from attorney Marty Truss at the firm Steptoe & Johnson. Truss penned the article “Eating The Elephant: Tips For Navigating Project Induced Anxiety And Intimidation.” Mentioned in this Episode: “Eating The Elephant: Tips For Navigating Project Induced Anxiety And Intimidation,” By Marty Truss “Alito Caught In Crosshairs Of Latest Supreme Court Scandal” “Impartial Enough For Government Work” American Bar Association American Bar Association Litigation Section

The locations of airports, polluting factories and incinerators, and other environmental hazards in disadvantaged or predominantly minority communities isn’t an accident, and it’s not fair. In a changing world and climate, ensuring transparency, fairness, clean water and air, and a safe environment for all is more important than ever. In this episode, guest Abre’ Conner, Director of the NAACP’s Center for Environmental and Climate Justice, discusses the fight for fairness and the right for all to live in a safe and clean environment. No matter where you are on your career path, learn how you can get involved in the emerging field of environmental justice, which ranges from constitutional and civil rights to voting laws, transparent governance, and environmental regulation and protections. The sector is so broad that there is no one “right path,” only the will to do good and protect the planet and the people who live on it. Mentioned in this Episode: United Church of Christ (UCC), “Toxic Waste and Race at Twenty” U.S. Environmental Protection Agency Clean Water Act NAACP report, “Jackson Water Crisis” Sackett v. EPA, Supreme Court of the United States U.S. Department of Health and Human Services, “Title VI of the Civil Rights Act” Abre’ Conner testimony before the Congressional Committee on Homeland Security, Sept. 21, 2022, transcript The White House, Council on Environmental Quality  American Bar Association Environmental, Social Justice, and Sustainability Committee American Bar Association American Bar Association Litigation Section

Burnout: It’s real and it can affect all of us. In this episode, Dave invites a panel of experts to tackle this important and potentially damaging syndrome as it affects attorneys who volunteer their time in a pro bono setting. The demands never seem to end, but volunteering is meant to “fill your cup,” not overflow it.   A Bloomberg survey found burnout is a major problem, and it’s getting worse among attorneys. For the first time the survey found reports of attorney burnout exceeded 50%. Reports of wellbeing and job satisfaction are in decline too. But it’s not just in corporate practice, burnout affects those who want to volunteer. With so much need it’s easy to forget you’re only one person, and you can’t do it all.  How can we get involved in pro bono work without burning out? It can start with being aware of the syndrome, adjusting our workflow to the right level, adopting “virtual” programs to balance time, sharing the load, and focusing on areas of passion.  Learn to recognize the signs of burnout in the pro bono space and how you can help yourself, and others, deal with stress and feeling overwhelmed. And for all who volunteer their services to help others: Thank you. Mentioned in this Episode: Bloomberg Law, “How to Rethink and Encourage Attorney Well-Being in Firms” World Health Organization, “Burn-out an occupational phenomenon: International Classification of Diseases” American Bar Association American Bar Association Litigation Section Anne Geraghty Helms previous appearance on Litigation Radio, “The Need For Pro Bono” Children’s Law Center Of Massachusetts American Bar Association Children’s Rights Litigation Committee

What’s up at the U.S. Supreme Court, which has rocked the legal world with a conservative majority rolling back rights the rights of minorities, including 2023 rulings against affirmative action for college admissions and affirming the rights of business owners to deny service to LGBTQ patrons based on religious beliefs.  Guest Stephen Vladeck is a professor of law, nationally recognized expert on constitutional law and the Supreme Court, and the author of the book “The Shadow Docket: How the Supreme Court Uses Stealth Rulings to Amass Power and Undermine the Republic.”  The Supreme Court has been exposed in recent years as an institution unbound by checks and balances and appears unaccountable to anyone. The Court regularly shapes the American system of justice through a “shadow docket,” decisions and rules made apart from headline cases.  Are we witnessing a crisis in the judicial branch? Is this a Court that can do what it wants when it wants? What happens to ethics, accountability, improprieties?  Plus, tips about discovery and the potential pitfalls of third-party collaboration apps (such as Slack and Teams). Hear what rules apply, and which ones don’t.

Is your firm using Artificial Intelligence (AI)? Should it be? AI is expected to have a profound impact on the practice of law. Lawyers are already using AI in their practices to review documents and conduct research. Yet, as the technology emerges, there are ethical, privacy, and practical concerns. Guest Richard Finkelman of the global consulting firm Berkeley Research Group (BRG) is an expert in AI applications in the legal profession. Finkelman is sees AI and machine learning already widely in use, specifically in e-discovery and document review. Four out of five legal firms surveyed by BRG employ AI in some capacity. This is the stuff of today, not the future. AI can already determine if a document is subject to privilege, pinpoint which documents need review, and even scan expert testimony (yours and theirs) for red flags. This speeds workflow, improves accuracy, and protects against potentially sensitive errors. Never again worry about accidentally turning over a privileged document or intellectual property? That sounds nice, but there are risks. Hear how you can incorporate AI tech into your practice, provide disclosures at the start of a case, check for accuracy, and avoid boxing yourself in with pre-trial agreements without knowing what’s coming next in the field. Learn this stuff before your next case. Mentioned in this Episode: ChatGPT Google Bard American Bar Association American Bar Association Litigation Section “Artificial Intelligence and Machine Learning Report,” by Richard Finkelman at BRG

This is a tough episode because this could be any of us. Guest Jason Ward is a retired, highly successful lawyer. But behind his growing firm, substance abuse took hold even as Ward maintained the veneer of health and professionalism. Ward put constant stress on himself that morphed into mental wellbeing and substance abuse issues. He came to realize his drinking was taking over, not just on vacations, but also at home. At its peak, substance abuse damaged both Ward’s family and professional relationships. When he quit drinking, he found his behavior had altered and he moved on to THC to cope. Ultimately, he was forced to take full control of his own mental health, retire from the culture of legal litigation, and seek professional help. Today, Ward is sober. His is a success story.  This is a brutally honest discussion, but it’s one we need to have. As you devote yourself to your clients and practice, are you paying attention to your own health and habits? It’s easy to lose sight when you are focusing on your practice. The business of law can deliver its own form of PTSD, post-traumatic stress disorder. Please be good to yourself. Help is available. Mentioned in this Episode: National Center on Substance Abuse and Child Welfare, U.S. Department of Health and Human Services Substance Abuse Assistance, Government of Canada “Resolving Grave Disputes - The Law Of Dead Bodies In Ontario,” By Jason Ward Mental Health Awareness, American Bar Association Well-Being Programs, Canadian Bar Association American Bar Association American Bar Association Litigation Section

The ABA Litigation Section’s Women in Litigation Joint CLE Conference is coming to San Diego November 1-3. If you’ve never attended—you are missing out. The conference focuses on women litigators and judges and helps women develop relationships, find mentors, learn from others, and share experiences in a welcoming and insightful environment. You will find like-minded women and guidance, learn how to create valuable business relationships and friendships, hear how others have created their own brand, and learn to balance work and life. Guests Amy Stewart and Heather White are highly successful litigators who have made their own way as women and as attorneys. They’ve learned the value of authenticity, real friendships, asking for help when they need it, and offering a hand when it’s needed. Believe it or not, who you know is as important as what you know. Relationships and reputations are part of the practice of law—they drive your career forward. Also in this episode, guest M.C. Sungaila, one of the conference organizers, provides highlights from the conference and what you can look forward to! Mentioned in this Episode: ABA, Women In Litigation Joint CLE Conference ABA Corporate Counsel ABA DEI: Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion  American Bar Association American Bar Association Litigation Section

Guest Melissa Felder Zappala is a litigator with the Washington, D.C., office of Paul, Weiss, Rifkind, Wharton & Garrison LLP. She has had tremendous success litigating high profile, tech-related, commercial cases and class action suits. She also has a profound hearing disability.  In this episode, Melissa describes her experiences as a hearing-impaired law student and, later, as a litigator. Are you prepared as a litigator to work with counsel with unique needs? Being aware of our differences, along with disclosure and clear communication, are key when working with those with hearing loss. Being clear, concise, and direct can go a long way. Learn how technology, reasonable accommodation, understanding, and collaboration can ensure a level playing field for everyone. Mentioned in this Episode: “Melissa Felder Zappala Publishes Essay on Coming to Terms With Being Deaf in Big Law in ABA’s Litigation Journal,” by Melissa Felder Zappala American Bar Association American Bar Association Litigation Section

Focus groups are common in marketing, but they also can help a lawyer learn what resonates with nonlawyers before presenting a client’s case before a jury. Focus groups, in their simplest form, offer a “test run” for issues and strategies you are considering using in pretrial and trial matters, and will let you know if you are building the best strategy and communicating your legal arguments in a way that is understood. You can even use them to evaluate whether your expert witness is likeable and communicates well. Don’t wait until your client’s fate is on the line! In this episode, guest Ken Levinson, a focus group expert and successful personal injury lawyer, gives advice on how attorneys can incorporate focus groups into their trial preparations.

Law schools do an excellent job teaching the law, but does anyone teach new lawyers how to communicate and develop positive, productive relationships? Most lawyers graduate with a solid grasp of the law, but many have never learned how to work with clients, colleagues, judges, opposing counsel, and the community at large. Effective communication and relationship development are at the heart of every litigation practice. Communication builds strong cases, establishes rapport with clients and colleagues, and helps litigators explain complicated issues to juries. Guest Nan Joesten, a former corporate executive and litigator and founder of Rapid Evolution LLC, is dedicated to helping attorneys and executives build communication and relationship skills. In this episode, we discuss key elements for communication; strategies to use in the courtroom and in our practices; and tips to help us listen, communicate, connect, get involved, and build a reputation. Hear Nan’s real-world insights and actionable tips--don’t wait to become a better communicator! Stay tuned for our “Quick Tips” segment on mediation at the end of this episode.