Sexvangelicals

We commonly hear our couples conflating sexuality and pleasure, which comes with the unintended message that the only, or best way that a person can experience pleasure is through their sexuality.   For a lot of folks, that's a ton of pleasure to put on a sexual relationship, and can lead to sexuality feeling like an obligation.   We talk with sex educator Goody Howard (@askgoody) about strategies to separate pleasure from sexuality, with the hopes that the more a person experiences pleasure in their individual lives, the more positively that impacts a sexual relationship. She explores with us: The role of confidence, and how confidence gives us power Encouraging faith based communities to overcome negative messages about pleasure (i.e. the role of the devil) Strategies to engage and focus on all of your senses. The language of gender and sexuality expansiveness And make sure to stay tuned to the end, when Goody describes what has quickly become our favorite article of clothing.  

Jesus or my Boyfriend? A question we all ask ourselves. Or, maybe not. In this episode, Jeremiah, Julia, and I (Nicole) play the guessing game, Jesus or my Boyfriend? Where Jeremiah and Julia tell me lyrics and I have to guess if it is a Christian worship song or a pop song. I grew up in a Romanian Eastern Orthodox Church, so I never had exposure to American worship music. Though some of the same themes still hold (i.e. the idea of being born a sinner, devoting yourself to God fully etc.), we didn’t have catchy ballads. We explored what Christian messaging was in the worship songs, how one word is the only difference between a song about sex and a song about God, and how horny Christians might actually be. I mean, this music makes Jesus seem pretty horny. One of my biggest takeaways from this episode is how exposure to this worship music is actually really dangerous for children because messaging around servitude and devotion (especially for young girls) can be really damaging. Jesus Completes Us (17:00): When discussing In Your Eyes by Peter Gabriel, Julia speaks on how the lyrics of this song could be interpreted as a worship song: “In your eyes the light, the heat, I am complete” is the lyric, and Julia says “We are not complete generally without Jesus” in the eyes of the Church. This song was a tough guess, but we all know there is no “heat” allowed in Church spaces, as Nicole mentions after. Musical Manipulation (21:00): After discussing the song “The More I Seek You” by Hillsong, Jeremiah explains a Discovery Channel documentary about Hillsong, which is essentially a factory for producing worship songs, and he says “lots of musical manipulation” (22:18) when talking about the kinds of worship songs Hillsong is pumping out. Jeremiah and Julia highly recommend watching the documentary Hillsong: A Megachurch Exposed. Jeremiah then notes how in the book “This is Your Brain on Music” the author discusses how pop singers use certain cord progressions to evoke specific emotions and how Hillsong is the master of this. Born Sinning (27:30): When talking about Nicole’s guess about if a song is Jesus or My Boyfriend, she explains what gave away the lyrics “I’ve done wrong and I want to suffer for my sins. I’ve come to you because I need guidance to be true” (Criminal by Fiona Apple) to be “my boyfriend” and not a worship song: “Christians would just be like I have sinned. I am not coming to you, I am disgusting I have sinned.” The distinction being made here is that in worship songs it is usually centering the fact that people are inherently sinners, while this song differs from that ideology by seeking help and framing it is a sin that happened not one that was born into people. Defined by Sin (31:00): Julia says “Christianity really likes to define you by your sins.” A big topic when discussing the songs chosen for this episode is the intentional wording choices for the lyrics in these songs. Just the difference between “I have sinned” and “I am a sinner” is a way to tell if a song is using creative choices or a worship song that wants to instill negative Christian ideology in its listeners. If you want some spoilers, here is the complete list of songs we analyzed in this episode: 1. Your Love is Extravagant -- Casting Crowns 2. Hallelujah -- Brenton Brown 3. In Your Eyes -- Peter Gabriel 4. The More I Seek You -- Hillsong 5. Only Hope -- Mandy Moore 6. All My Life -- KCi and Jojo (Jeremiah’s favorite song growing up) 7. Pour My Love on You -- Phillips, Craig, and Dean 8. Criminal -- Fiona Apple (One of my favorite songs ever) 9. In the Secret -- Chris Tomlin 10. Save Tonight -- Eagle Eye Cherry (A contender on Julia’s best songs of all time list) 11. I Surrender -- Hillsong 12. Toto -- Africa (Another contender on Julia’s best songs of all time list) 13. I Want It That Way -- N'Sync (Objectively the best song of all time [that’s just my opinion)

Reverend Beverly Dale, founder of the Incarnation Institute for Sex and Faith and the co-author of Advancing Sexual Health for the Christian Client: Data and Dogma, joins Jeremiah and Julia to talk about the importance of building relationships between theologians and sexual health professionals. Dale describes her journey of exploring her sexuality and identity, and her vision for creating healing for Christian folks through identifying dogmatic processes and reclaiming sexual pleasure.

A follow-up to episode 6, Julia and Jeremiah talk about the time that they blew up their lives...by having an affair. Yikes. On the one hand, Christian culture demonizes infidelity as the worst thing one can do. On the other hand, movies (read: chick flicks) tend to dismiss or glamorize affairs. Even though their story may read like a Nora Ephron screenplay, Julia and Jeremiah address the strange combination of anxiety, isolation, joy, and shame connected with the beginning of their relationship.

Julia is shocked when she attends her religious college, meets a Christian Democrat, and engages in dialogue around race and sexuality for the first time. During her time in the social work department, Julia both lost and regained a sense of faith, despite leaving institutionalized reigion. While her education laid a foundation for sexual growth and development, she was not given tools to reflect on her own sexuality until starting sex therapy at 25. Julia shares her experiences of grief, loss, and healing.

Jeremiah talks with Julia about what it was like to grow up in conservative Christianity and the impact on his views on sex, gender, and sexuality. Spoiler alert: Jeremiah may or may not have led a Bible study at the wise age of 7. Our in-depth conversation includes the role of masculinity in Evangelicalism, the ways that legalism prevents growth and curiosity, and the anxieties that develop around sexuality as a result of these rigid expectations. 

What are the messages that we wish we learned about masculinity? What are messages that we'd like to teach younger generations about masculinity, and in conjunction, how we might do relationships more effectively, more collaboratively?   We are thrilled to have Zach Wagner (@zacharycwagner), author of Non-Toxic Masculinity, on Sexvangelicals this week. Zach talks with us about: The Books of Deconstruction The Narrative of Sex and Conquest Broadening the Script Male Sexuality Injecting Shame  Shame & Desire EMPish Communities and Being “Counter-Cultural” Internalized Narratives  Desire  Starting Sex Ed Early Check out Episode #67: Banned Books: Non-Toxic Masculinity, by Zach Wagner, part 2 of 2 on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts.    Show notes and transcript are on the SV website.

Healing from Purity Culture involves conversations of how Evangelical communities have created undue amounts of anxiety and pressure for men as well as women.   We talk with Zachary Wagner (@zacharycwagner), author of the new book Non-Toxic Masculinity, about the importance of deconstructing simplistic, reductive practices of manhood and reimagining new ways that men can conceptualize themselves and create meaningful relationships.   Zach talks with us about: Why Does the Book Matter Now: Generational Understandings of Masculinity The Power of the Purity Movement Purity Books  The Effects of Christian Literature Purity Culture and Sex  Violence as a Result of Purity Culture  Purity Camp  Reducing Each Other's Humanity  Healing  Check out Episode #66: Banned Books: Non Toxic Masculinity, with Zach Wagner, part 1 of 2 on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts.   Show notes and transcript are on the SV website: www.sexvangelicals.com

Are you interested in writing a memoir? Then this episode is especially for you!   We're excited to have Tia Levings @tialevingsswriter, author of the upcoming book A Well Trained Wife, as our guest for Sexvangelicals this week.   Tia talks with us about: Hero’s Journey Not Exploiting Your Own Story  Babies and Resilience The Nuance in Deconstruction  Finding Light in the Dark  Honoring Our Instincts  Slowing Down  Write the Book  The Books of Deconstruction  Check out Episode #65 Banned Books: A Well Trained Wife, with Tia Levings, part 2 of 2 on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts.   Show notes and transcript are on the SV website.

"While this story is my own memoir, the situations in this book are far from unique. With me stands a choir of invisible fundamentalist women, too silenced to tell their stories for themselves."    We're honored to have Tia Levings (@tialevingswriter), author of the upcoming book A Well Trained Wife, as our podcast guest this week. Tia shares her research, wisdom, and immense bravery with us; we focus our conversations around: How the Evangelical Church is a Microcosm of a Bigger System Waiting for the Other Shoe to Drop: Perfectionism  Books that Encourage Evangelical Family Structures Tradwives Dating Under Purity Culture  Covenant Marriage  Cosigning Misery  The Wellness Industry and Christianity  Assigning Credit to Yourself Instead of God

There's a lot of memoirs, social media comments, and dialogue about leaving the evangelical church. However, as our guest, Sarah McCammon (@sarahmccammon_journalist) says, "you can't really understand the leaving without understanding loving and living the evangelical church."   Sarah is the author of the new book The Exvangelicals. She talks with us about: The history of Christianity and politics What religion may offer The Bill Clinton Era and Purity Culture Evangelical Relationships  Performing Gender  Loving and Living (and Leaving) the Evangelical Church Grief  Connection and Trauma Bonding  Healing Through Storytelling Check out Episode #63: Banned Books: The Exvangelicals, with Sarah McCammon, part 2 of 2 on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts.   Show notes and transcript are on the SV website

It's been really fascinating to watch the ways that Evangelical, Mormon, and Pentecostal (EMPish) cultures have begun to be deconstructed and discussed on a wider cultural level.    While some still struggle to accurately name the direct correlation between EMPish cultures and the construction of the modern-day Republican Party, NPR national correspondent Sarah McCammon (@sarahmccammon_journalist) discusses the strategy and implementation of rigid conservative values in her new book The Exvangelicals: Loving, Living, and Leaving the White Evangelical Church.   In part 1 of a 2 part interview, Sarah talks with us about:  Trump and Evangelicals The rise of the religious Nones Two target audiences The purpose of The Exvangelicals Fear of Judgement  Empathy and Honesty  Why People Stay in EMPish Spaces  Lack of Goodbyes  Christianity and Inclusivity Promises Unfulfilled  Salem Witch Trials and Christian Textbooks The Exvangelicals comes out this week--buy it on Amazon!   Check out Episode #62: Banned Books: The Exvangelicals, with Sarah McCammon, part 1 of 2 on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts.   Show notes and transcript are on the SV website  

One of the most common relational processes that the deconstructing world talks about is boundaries. Evangelical circles encourage the elimination of boundaries. Sexuality is public, as Purity Culture invites people in leadership positions to make a variety of comments about people's bodies. Accountability groups and testimonials favor people who describe the most intimate parts of their stories.    When making sense of these harmful systems, it's easy to go the opposite direction with boundaries; in fact, quite a few people in the deconstructing community invite people to do this. But as we talk about with Laura Anderson, author of When Religion Hurts You, the construction of boundaries is a complex, nuanced process, something more complicated than just "Setting those boundaries".   Laura talks with us about:  Leaving religious spaces Trust development post-religion Boundary rigidity Differences being dangerous Pop psychology messages around boundaries Trauma in the context of relationships The practice of slowing down Healing ourselves first Accommodations and understanding Check out Episode #61: Banned Books, with Laura Anderson, part 2 of 2 on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts.   Show notes and transcript are on the Sexvangelicals website.   

What is religious abuse? Dr. Laura Anderson, in her new book When Religion Hurts You, defines it as:   "The improper use of religious beliefs, teachings, doctrines, and relationships against another person. This might include harassment, humiliation, mind control, psychological abuse, isolation, threats, intimidation, minimizing, denying, blaming, asserting spiritual authority, and making it difficult to leave the religious community."   If you're experienced one or more of the above, our interview with Laura provides some strategies for processing and navigating these experiences. Laura talks with us about: Addressing Religious Trauma Downplaying Trauma How Diagnosing Blames the Individual Focusing on the Body Eating Disorders and EMPish Communities Acknowledging Before Healing Two-Choice Dilemmas Honoring Grief The Demonization of Anger Check out Episode #60: Banned Books: When Religion Hurts You, with Laura Anderson (part 1 of 2) on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Purity Culture is largely embedded within White social and political systems intended to dominate and control bodies through a hyper-moralistic, anti-sex landscape.   However, in this last week of Black History month, it's imperative that we talk about the ways that Purity Culture has impacted Black communities.   To help us, we are sharing our interview with Deesha Philyaw (@deeshaphilyaw), author of The Secret Lives of Church Ladies, about how the values of Purity Culture have infiltrated Black churches and informed sexual relationships and expectations within the Black community. We talk about: Purity Culture within Cultural Contexts Values  How Sexual Misinformation Informs the Writing Process The Lack of Conversation  Divorce within the Church Fiction and Sexual Health  Suffering in Silence  “Daddy Issues''  Grief  Working Through Self-Hate Through Fiction  Sexism within Black Churches  Check out Episode 59: Banned Books: The Secret Lives of Church Ladies, with Deesha Philyaw on Apple Podcast, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. Please give us a five star review as well!   Show notes and transcript are found on the Sexvangelicals website.

Julia begins, "Unlearning the messages from the church archive is only part of the healing process. The next step is learning new ways to engage relationships and sexuality.    So, together, we are going to begin creating a new library with literature that can support us in building better, more sustainable, and thriving relationships."    In order to unlearn unhelpful messages, we have to understand the systems that propagated these messages.  "If I had a dollar for every time a client mentioned The Five Love Languages in therapy, I'd have close to a thousand dollars by this stage," Jeremiah says.   The problem? The Five Love Languages was written by Gary Chapman. Chapman has no professional training in therapy or the science of relationships. Rather, he's one of hundreds of clergy trained at Wheaton, Moody Bible College, and other conservative organizations who have written about relationships--generally not their scope of practice.  These authors have been propelled by a multi-billion dollar publishing industry who have generated radio shows, books, TV shows, and podcasts to sell complementarian gender roles, a rigid understanding of sexuality, and communication strategies that seek avoidance and compliance rather than negotiation of differences.    In this episode, Jeremiah and Julia talk about: History of Christian Publishing Houses  Conservatism and Publishing Christian Education and Apologetics Why Christian Literature is Effective Ask Suzie  Why Focus on Christian Media?  “Sex Ed”  The Books of Deconstruction and Music as Manipulation Perpetuating Myths 

The Roman Catholic Church, Southern Baptist Convention, and Acts 29 Churches have all had significant challenges with sexual, emotional, and spiritual abuse in their systems, something that becomes even more pronounced when religious systems become intertwined with private and home schooling, sex education, and the expectations of rigid gender norms.   Sarah Stankorb, author of Disobedient Women, interviews women who have been victimized within Evangelical systems. And while online spaces provided camaraderie, acceptance, and empowerment, the disclosure of abuse and sexual crimes often gets met with the opposite outcomes.   Sarah talks with us about things to consider when disclosing spiritual abuse, including: How the Church Enables Abuse. Intertwining of Church and School. Homeschooling and Being Insulated. Reporting Abuse in Higher Education. Parallels Between Secular and Christian Universities. Title IX.  The Right to Silence for Survivors. The Importance of Listening. The Internet and Community Check out Episode #57: Kicking Off the New Year with Spiritual Abuse: Things to Consider When Disclosing Spiritual Abuse, with Sarah Stankorb on Apple Podcasts. And please leave us a 5 star review!   Show notes and transcript are on the SV website:

It's well documented that reporting abuse to larger systems is a daunting process. The Southern Baptist Convention is the latest organization to have been outed for the ways that it protects perpetrators of violence, especially against women and children, two categories of people whose stories are commonly dismissed in our larger society.   We're thrilled to have Sarah Stankorb on our podcast. Sarah Stankorb is the author of the national best-seller Disobedient Women. The award-winning, Ohio-based writer talks about religion, politics, feminism, health, technology, and the public good. In Disobedient Women, she outlines how access to the internet—its networks, freedom of expression, and resources for deeply researching and reporting on powerful church figures—allowed women to begin dismantling the false authority of evangelical communities that had long demanded their submission.   In this episode, Sarah talks with us about the emotional and relational processes that empower women to share their stories and hold systems accountable for their actions. We discuss: The concept of impact vs. intent How the church enables abuse Demonizing anger The fallacies of untethered empathy The weight of speaking up Storytelling and journalism Defining bravery The trad-wife trend, and other systems that encourage women to propagate messages of inequity. Check out Episode #56: Kicking Off the New Year with Spiritual Abuse: How Anger Can Be a Vital Resource for Processing Trauma and Beginning Change, with Sarah Stankorb on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen to podcasts.   Show notes and transcript can be found on the Sexvangelicals website.